so basically it's "American workers want fair treatment, rights, decent pay, and dont want to literally live at work in a company dormatory where they can wake you up in the middle of the night and make you work a 12 hour shift"
poor apple, wouldnt be able to make more profit than exxon. no wonder they dont want to do it!
This is BS: The US workers are "not competitive in this industry" - as you put it - because they don't want to be treated like SLAVES. Remember the mass-suicides at a FoxxConn plant? Want to work for $ 17 a day and sleep in a room with 7 of your fellow co-workers? Want to work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week?
Because - you know - this is what it takes to be "competitive in this industry" and I'm just wondering what you would say about the US if one fine day all this will be in place for you and for your kids.
It is not that simple over there, where they can just up and leave for better opportunities. Nor will political pressure do a whole lot to help. It won't be long before China takes the reins of the world's largest economy.
oh, and slaves. Human slaves who will work themselves to death at the Foxconn plant. Ya just can't get good slaves in the United States. Although, if Mitt Romney and the GOP got their way....(you do know that the concept of “right-to-work” really means "we-rich-people-want-our-slaves-back"...right?)
Company towns... coming to a city near you in the near future. This is the freedom and American dream conservatives have fought for for 30 years... a cup of tea, a biscuit and $17 per day.
Apple or ANY company that exports jobs like this en masse, isn't looking for diligence, drive & train-ability. Those are qualities worth paying a living wage for in the developed world.
They key to US manufacturing is innovation in the manufacturing process. China's manufacturing is low tech and will likely be for a long time (the govt isnt going to automate jobs because they need as many people working as possible).
US manufacturing is actually making a comeback and some speculate that China's advantage in this sector is coming to an end.
Companies do not *have* to operate in a greedy manner. It's up to the board to set their level of corporate ethics. The US would not allow the levels of employee abuse to occur domestically. That *should* be a pretty clear sign that Apple is not observing it's domestic set of ethics. The company has conveniently ignored domestic ethics in lieu of it's own set of ethics. There are in fact many companies that are able to operate domestically and within the rules set up by the US where it comes to employment law. This isn't that different than the arguments around slavery being allowed to exist domestically. I for one would much rather purchase my tech from a company that charged more if it were made ethically... and if this issue is pushed far enough I could see companies advertising their use of a certain standard of employment ethics.
I believe apple bought one of the chip supplies a few years ago, I also believe that they currently have an assembly plant in the US for their A6 processor. One of the major suppliers for all these companies, Foxconn, was in the process of opening a facility in Brazil a few months ago. Sorry, your going to have to look up the details yourself if you really care. My point was that there are sometimes good reasons not to outsource everything to china.
I think that your statement has much truth. American works are not competitive because we choose to not live in those conditions. However, there are plenty of places in the world where they are, as it is the best opportunity that they have and it is better then living in other areas. It is the same reason that we have immigrants that pick our crops. Most Americans are not willing to endure those conditions for $15-$18 dollars an hour. So if you are not willing to do the work at the rate and in the conditions that it mandates, advance your skill set and do something else. No one is stopping you from opening your own company, no one is stopping you from going back to college, no one is stopping you from bettering your life. But if you are not willing to take the risk to start a business, not willing to put time into a college degree that is in demand, not willing to better your life, there is a factory job waiting for you at $10-$12 dollars an hour, maybe, and soon that will be at minimum wage, as the skill set required to do most manufacturing (exception give to skilled trades) is not that complicated.
Apparently you are allowed to poison foxxconn employees too. They said that a neurotoxin was being used to clean screens because it was faster. The workers doing this part of production were visibly already affected but still working.
It's like a human rights violation.
And how would do that, if you were Chinese? It's almost impossible to get US visa. My wife is Filipina, and we are not poor either, she couldn't get a visa to Norway. Governments are very xenofobic, as a rule of thumb. Chances are, if you're Chinese, you'll live and die in China.
And to be slightly less cynical: Apple is a leader in their sector, and changes at Apple are far more likely to be emulated by the rest of the industry than are changes at any other firm.
It can be made in the US, its just that Apple wants to make a BI$$ER margin.
With the popularity of the iPhone, iPad, and so on... They can still make a big profit, and make it in the US. So this is just pure GREED. Its not the case of trying to be competitive... when you pretty much have most of the market share, so it is GREED, and they want a bigger margin. That's all it is... $$$
Yup, most americans would not take the jobs that my ancestors had when they were new to the US. I suspect that many would not take some of the minimum wage jobs that I had 35 years ago. Hopefully, my kids won't have that experience.
I'm sure many of these chinese workers are hoping that their efforts will result in a better life for their kids. What is happening in china today is not much different from what happened in the US 100 years ago.
particleman420Jan 23, 2012Buried
so basically it's "American workers want fair treatment, rights, decent pay, and dont want to literally live at work in a company dormatory where they can wake you up in the middle of the night and make you work a 12 hour shift"
poor apple, wouldnt be able to make more profit than exxon. no wonder they dont want to do it!
rupawJan 23, 2012Buried
This is BS: The US workers are "not competitive in this industry" - as you put it - because they don't want to be treated like SLAVES. Remember the mass-suicides at a FoxxConn plant? Want to work for $ 17 a day and sleep in a room with 7 of your fellow co-workers? Want to work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week?
Because - you know - this is what it takes to be "competitive in this industry" and I'm just wondering what you would say about the US if one fine day all this will be in place for you and for your kids.
craig1958Jan 23, 2012Buried
Having apple in the headline results in more clicks than having "consumer electronics industry."
lostngoneJan 23, 2012Buried
Why are we attacking only Apple? Dell, HP, Microsoft are all pretty much all made in the same overseas factories.
I do not see anyone demanding the xbox be made in the U.S?
NeosopheusJan 23, 2012Buried
It is not that simple over there, where they can just up and leave for better opportunities. Nor will political pressure do a whole lot to help. It won't be long before China takes the reins of the world's largest economy.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/19/undercover-chinese-reporter-exposes-foxconn-working-conditions/
http://thenewamerican.com/economy/economics-mainmenu-44/7263-imf-chinese-economy-to-surpass-us-by-2016
NeosopheusJan 23, 2012Buried
So they want animals who will single-mindedly do what their masters insist?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/19/undercover-chinese-reporter-exposes-foxconn-working-conditions/
varodrigJan 23, 2012Buried
But they are doing it faster, for longer, and for less money... and *possibly* more reliably as well.
mrkenrayJan 23, 2012Buried
oh, and slaves. Human slaves who will work themselves to death at the Foxconn plant. Ya just can't get good slaves in the United States. Although, if Mitt Romney and the GOP got their way....(you do know that the concept of “right-to-work” really means "we-rich-people-want-our-slaves-back"...right?)
drunkrobotJan 23, 2012Buried
Company towns... coming to a city near you in the near future. This is the freedom and American dream conservatives have fought for for 30 years... a cup of tea, a biscuit and $17 per day.
ericschc1Jan 23, 2012Buried
Apple or ANY company that exports jobs like this en masse, isn't looking for diligence, drive & train-ability. Those are qualities worth paying a living wage for in the developed world.
ieatskunkJan 23, 2012Buried
They key to US manufacturing is innovation in the manufacturing process. China's manufacturing is low tech and will likely be for a long time (the govt isnt going to automate jobs because they need as many people working as possible).
US manufacturing is actually making a comeback and some speculate that China's advantage in this sector is coming to an end.
satori3000Jan 23, 2012Buried
Companies do not *have* to operate in a greedy manner. It's up to the board to set their level of corporate ethics. The US would not allow the levels of employee abuse to occur domestically. That *should* be a pretty clear sign that Apple is not observing it's domestic set of ethics. The company has conveniently ignored domestic ethics in lieu of it's own set of ethics. There are in fact many companies that are able to operate domestically and within the rules set up by the US where it comes to employment law. This isn't that different than the arguments around slavery being allowed to exist domestically. I for one would much rather purchase my tech from a company that charged more if it were made ethically... and if this issue is pushed far enough I could see companies advertising their use of a certain standard of employment ethics.
craig1958Jan 23, 2012Buried
I believe apple bought one of the chip supplies a few years ago, I also believe that they currently have an assembly plant in the US for their A6 processor. One of the major suppliers for all these companies, Foxconn, was in the process of opening a facility in Brazil a few months ago. Sorry, your going to have to look up the details yourself if you really care. My point was that there are sometimes good reasons not to outsource everything to china.
mvaJan 23, 2012Buried
I think that your statement has much truth. American works are not competitive because we choose to not live in those conditions. However, there are plenty of places in the world where they are, as it is the best opportunity that they have and it is better then living in other areas. It is the same reason that we have immigrants that pick our crops. Most Americans are not willing to endure those conditions for $15-$18 dollars an hour. So if you are not willing to do the work at the rate and in the conditions that it mandates, advance your skill set and do something else. No one is stopping you from opening your own company, no one is stopping you from going back to college, no one is stopping you from bettering your life. But if you are not willing to take the risk to start a business, not willing to put time into a college degree that is in demand, not willing to better your life, there is a factory job waiting for you at $10-$12 dollars an hour, maybe, and soon that will be at minimum wage, as the skill set required to do most manufacturing (exception give to skilled trades) is not that complicated.
nunfuJan 23, 2012Buried
Apparently you are allowed to poison foxxconn employees too. They said that a neurotoxin was being used to clean screens because it was faster. The workers doing this part of production were visibly already affected but still working.
It's like a human rights violation.
LiebeschtickJan 24, 2012Buried
And how would do that, if you were Chinese? It's almost impossible to get US visa. My wife is Filipina, and we are not poor either, she couldn't get a visa to Norway. Governments are very xenofobic, as a rule of thumb. Chances are, if you're Chinese, you'll live and die in China.
amaoicanJan 23, 2012Buried
And to be slightly less cynical: Apple is a leader in their sector, and changes at Apple are far more likely to be emulated by the rest of the industry than are changes at any other firm.
blydchyldJan 23, 2012Buried
Indentured employment is still slavery.
idtronicglJan 25, 2012Buried
It can be made in the US, its just that Apple wants to make a BI$$ER margin.
With the popularity of the iPhone, iPad, and so on... They can still make a big profit, and make it in the US. So this is just pure GREED. Its not the case of trying to be competitive... when you pretty much have most of the market share, so it is GREED, and they want a bigger margin. That's all it is... $$$
craig1958Jan 23, 2012Buried
Yup, most americans would not take the jobs that my ancestors had when they were new to the US. I suspect that many would not take some of the minimum wage jobs that I had 35 years ago. Hopefully, my kids won't have that experience.
I'm sure many of these chinese workers are hoping that their efforts will result in a better life for their kids. What is happening in china today is not much different from what happened in the US 100 years ago.