He was buried because his comment was simplistic and ultimately wrong. Romania is the victim of corruption and poor leadership (like Greece). They have a flat corporate and income tax (16%) and a very streamlined regulatory structure. They were actually doing fairly well economically before the economic meltdown. This happened while they were still in flux from joining the EU, making things more complicated.
To weather the crisis, they requested a loan from the IMF, but the EU demanded austerity measures in exchange. Taxes were raised, spending was cut and public sector salaries were slashed. Hence, the riots. Austerity was not necessary. It just happens to be the preference of the conservative governments in the EU and it's killing Europe. Had we adopted austerity in the US, the world would be well and truly f**ked.
When politicians voluntarily resign their power, you know the s**t is bad. You can elect someone else, but I don't think that will make the numbers add up any better.
Simplistic, yes. Cutting all that spending means cutting jobs, both public and private, that rely on that spending. Sure, there's some savings that can be had from better bookkeeping, less corruption, small cuts to services, etc. But if everyone is unemployed, and noone is hiring, and there's no confidence in the system anymore, how are they supposed to bounce back from that?
Spending cuts sound good if you say it fast, but there are consequences to every action. Austerity has already been criticized by many economists. Unfortunately for EU members, they have no choice if they want to be on Team EU. I guess we'll see how it all turns out in a few years.
"when was the last time government stepped back out after the market is stable?"
It depends on what you mean by stepped back out. If you mean not passing massive stimulus bills, then they've stepped back out every time. Keynes advocated mixed markets, so the government is essentially part of the market and plays a key role that the market cannot fill.
"I bet the government collapsing will cut more jobs."
Strawman. This government collapse isn't due to spending, it's due to cutting.
"What part of spend less than you make do I not understand?"
A lot, apparently. You're assuming that's the only possible solution to this kind of problem. Government finance is not the same as personal finance. The government is able to step in when the private sector is down to stablize the business cycle. This is classic Keynesian economics:
It's been working since the end of the Great Depression.
"If it is such a good idea, why doesn't Greece start printing drachmas again, and spend as much as they like?"
Greece is too far gone for that. Their government is too corrupt and inept. Romania, for example, has a much lower debt to GDP ratio than Greece. Romania was nowhere near needing austerity measures to fix their problems. Greece is one of those rare cases where it *is* necessary.
This is the end result of spending too much money that you don't have. Now that people are being forced to pay back the bill it's no surprise they aren't very happy.
Yes, I'm really that ignorant. So please, explain to me what is coming in the next five years. Please help this ignorant rube see the error of his ways.
I'm from Romania ant it's like crom99 said, corruption and poor leadership. Nobody here trusts politicians, there are plenty of cases of corruption at a high level and nobody ever mentioned over-spending and over-borrowing as being the cause of it. They did mention bribes, state property sold at laughable prices and dubious contracts the state has with various firms.
You know, after reading about the Romania's government collapses after protests, I think a good night of bisexual and bicurious singles may do me just right. Especially curious about the open-minded singles & couples looking to explore their bisexuality. Thanks for the unreadable link too.
Yes, but it wasn't quite the same now as it was in '89. The people in power now were elected by a democratic system. The protesters demanded the president and the government resign, and in order to stop this social turmoil the government went but the president stayed. I'm just curious how things will play out.
crom99Feb 6, 2012Buried
He was buried because his comment was simplistic and ultimately wrong. Romania is the victim of corruption and poor leadership (like Greece). They have a flat corporate and income tax (16%) and a very streamlined regulatory structure. They were actually doing fairly well economically before the economic meltdown. This happened while they were still in flux from joining the EU, making things more complicated.
To weather the crisis, they requested a loan from the IMF, but the EU demanded austerity measures in exchange. Taxes were raised, spending was cut and public sector salaries were slashed. Hence, the riots. Austerity was not necessary. It just happens to be the preference of the conservative governments in the EU and it's killing Europe. Had we adopted austerity in the US, the world would be well and truly f**ked.
mjm6783Feb 6, 2012Buried
When politicians voluntarily resign their power, you know the s**t is bad. You can elect someone else, but I don't think that will make the numbers add up any better.
crom99Feb 6, 2012Buried
Simplistic, yes. Cutting all that spending means cutting jobs, both public and private, that rely on that spending. Sure, there's some savings that can be had from better bookkeeping, less corruption, small cuts to services, etc. But if everyone is unemployed, and noone is hiring, and there's no confidence in the system anymore, how are they supposed to bounce back from that?
Spending cuts sound good if you say it fast, but there are consequences to every action. Austerity has already been criticized by many economists. Unfortunately for EU members, they have no choice if they want to be on Team EU. I guess we'll see how it all turns out in a few years.
theboiFeb 6, 2012Buried
the power of ppl in numbers
cosmicsurferFeb 6, 2012Buried
Goldman Sachs hold the paper on Romania too?
crom99Feb 6, 2012Buried
"when was the last time government stepped back out after the market is stable?"
It depends on what you mean by stepped back out. If you mean not passing massive stimulus bills, then they've stepped back out every time. Keynes advocated mixed markets, so the government is essentially part of the market and plays a key role that the market cannot fill.
crom99Feb 6, 2012Buried
"I bet the government collapsing will cut more jobs."
Strawman. This government collapse isn't due to spending, it's due to cutting.
"What part of spend less than you make do I not understand?"
A lot, apparently. You're assuming that's the only possible solution to this kind of problem. Government finance is not the same as personal finance. The government is able to step in when the private sector is down to stablize the business cycle. This is classic Keynesian economics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian#Active_fiscal_policy
crom99Feb 6, 2012Buried
"Keynesian theory has worked in the past where?"
It's been working since the end of the Great Depression.
"If it is such a good idea, why doesn't Greece start printing drachmas again, and spend as much as they like?"
Greece is too far gone for that. Their government is too corrupt and inept. Romania, for example, has a much lower debt to GDP ratio than Greece. Romania was nowhere near needing austerity measures to fix their problems. Greece is one of those rare cases where it *is* necessary.
crom99Feb 7, 2012Buried
Their debt to GDP ratio is far below ours. So by your logic, we should be proportionally worse than they are, yet we're not even close.
If you don't believe what I wrote, look it up. You have the internet. Google is your friend.
realcoolguy9022Feb 6, 2012Buried
This is the end result of spending too much money that you don't have. Now that people are being forced to pay back the bill it's no surprise they aren't very happy.
crom99Feb 7, 2012Buried
@superkendall
Yes, I'm really that ignorant. So please, explain to me what is coming in the next five years. Please help this ignorant rube see the error of his ways.
realityvoidFeb 7, 2012Buried
I'm from Romania ant it's like crom99 said, corruption and poor leadership. Nobody here trusts politicians, there are plenty of cases of corruption at a high level and nobody ever mentioned over-spending and over-borrowing as being the cause of it. They did mention bribes, state property sold at laughable prices and dubious contracts the state has with various firms.
crom99Feb 7, 2012Buried
@markgl
You certainly won't convince him there is anything wrong without actually trying to convince him, that's for sure.
captswuitsFeb 7, 2012Buried
2nd this
crom99Feb 7, 2012Buried
If your salary was slashed 25% by corrupt politicians, you'd be pretty pissed, too.
assassyn360Feb 7, 2012Buried
I like my dream. YOU wake up.
captswuitsFeb 7, 2012Buried
You know, after reading about the Romania's government collapses after protests, I think a good night of bisexual and bicurious singles may do me just right. Especially curious about the open-minded singles & couples looking to explore their bisexuality. Thanks for the unreadable link too.
crom99Feb 7, 2012Buried
Romanian politicians remember what happened last time the public rose up against their leaders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OcMwfuTuzw
realityvoidFeb 7, 2012Buried
Yes, but it wasn't quite the same now as it was in '89. The people in power now were elected by a democratic system. The protesters demanded the president and the government resign, and in order to stop this social turmoil the government went but the president stayed. I'm just curious how things will play out.
deanbonneyFeb 6, 2012Buried
absolutely agree with you, Romania relaxed after integration in the Eurozone, and took the wrong way