I'm sorry but you're misleading everyone with your usage of the word agnostic. Agnosticism is separated categorically thusly: Agnostic theist, or agnostic atheist. You have to lean one way or the other if you have ANY doubts to either position, otherwise you're a gnostic atheist, or a gnostic theist, also known as strong atheism or theism.
You're still either an atheist or a theist. If you're an agnostic atheist, one who doesn't believe that a god exists, but leaves open the possibility, that's one thing, but claiming that agnositics are different from atheists just shows you're either wilfully or ignorantly misusing the term "agnostic".
Claiming to be an atheist is nothing more than showing doubt that a god exists or being able to say "I don't know.". Claiming to be a gnostic or strong atheist, is being entirely closed minded as to the existence of any god in any form. Which in my mind is a bad position, as you state.
Please do us all a favor though and use the term correctly.
I shall spread this word of this holy scripture on the authorized holy medium of Facebook. It is originated surely from his meatballsness. Flying spaghetti monster's holy sauce shall wash away thou sin with words of wisdom and ragu. Blessed be the noodley appendages. Amen.
Let he who is without sin toss the first meatball. For the day of reckoning is nigh. Those who do not believe will be forced into submission and banished into oblivion and shallest endure frozen dinners of fish sticks and freezer burned French fries. For these are the words of our lord.
No, agnostics do NOT believe that a god exists, they believe that one cannot know whether or not a god exists and choose to lead their lives through an internal common sense moral compass that lets them know the difference between right and wrong without having to worry about eternal damnation.
We also believe that Atheists are every bit as wrong as Theists because Atheists claim to know something which is unknowable. They simply believe that god doesn't, nor can, exist with every bit as much proof as Theists who believe the opposite.
Just to be clear, agnosticism comes from the greek work knosos which means knowledge. the prefix means without. It really can't be any clearer then that.
You wouldn't? Well, if you want to keep your kids illiterate, I suppose that's your business, but you might find it difficult and not terribly rewarding.
All I know is I sure wouldn't want to teach my kids a bunch of lies and superstition from thousands of years ago, unless I make sure that they understand there is no distinction between religious myth and other fairy tales.
Small correction - the only intellectually honest position is agnosticism bordering on atheism, since there is ample proof that virtually every testable fact in the bible is wrong. There is just as much reason to believe in magical space fairies as in god.
I bought an amazing book about all the religions of the world. When my kids ask religious questions, and they do, e open the book and read about the religion and discuss it. I present it as "this is what Christians/Muslims/Jews/Buddhists believe". Sometimes the result is a simple head nod and sometimes it results in further discussion. One thing I never do is demean the religion, just present the facts and listen to responses while always treating the beliefs with neither admiration or criticism.
"We also believe that Atheists are every bit as wrong as Theists because Atheists claim to know something which is unknowable. They simply believe that god doesn't, nor can, exist with every bit as much proof as Theists who believe the opposite."
Exept that what you're describing isn't atheism. It isn't a claim of absolute knowledge, it's an absense of belief. That's it.
Agnostic, on the other hand, is basically a cop-out for those who aren't willing to throw out irrational belief altogether. If I told you there was an invisible (cloaked) space-station left over from the alien race that seeded life on Earth orbiting just behind the Moon . . . . would you be "agnostic" about it given your inability to disprove my statement with absolute certainty? Are you "agnostic" about Leprechans, Fairies, Mermaids, Sea Monsters and Werewolves?
There's no need to hedge your bets with "agnotic," since atheism makes no claim of certainty. I'm equally "atheist" about all those examples I just gave you . . . but that no way implies I wouldn't immediately change my position tomorrow if evidence were presented that made it clear I was wrong.
If you don't present all sides of the argument and all scientific perspectives to a child, then you are forcing him to believe in god. That's not free will. Unless you explicitly teach the child to apply the scientific method to his surroundings, you are intellectually pushing him into a specific mold and mindset.
I'm sorry, but you weren't an atheist, and if you think those things happening in your life are a part of some gods will, you're extremely concieted and extremely ignorant.
I keep an open mind, but I'm not concieted enough to think that some being that has never shown a single proof of its existence, that is also omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient would give a single moments thought about what I do on a day to day basis, who I sleep with, or indeed even what I think.
There are some awesome things that have happened in my life, but every last one of them has had an explanation. Every single one. Just because some good things have happened to me doesn't mean god favors me, because if he does, he REALLY hates about half of the worlds population. Some god.
what gets me is when someone is 'miraculously' cured of something, it's a miracle from God... so how did you call it when they got sick in the first place?
1. This dogma is something that many people literally believe actually happened. So it isn't that wrong to not believe that and to use it as proof to claim that these religions are actually, explicitly wrong.
2. Yes, there is no actual proof that a super-powerful space guy did not create everything and everyone. There is also no actual proof that a little magical pixies aren't secretly running on treadmills inside the sun in order to power it. Both are equally valid or invalid based on evidence. There is no way to KNOW that magical pixies are not in charge of the sun.
Therefore, we do know that most of what most religions explicitly teach is false. Which is why I said agnosticism bordering on atheism. We don't know 100% that god doesn't exist, but everything we do know points to evidence that he doesn't. Which is why I said "agnosticism" and not actual atheism.
You're concieted because you think you know the will of your god. You think you're doing your gods work, you think that everyone else is wrong because they're not doing what YOU think is gods will.
At least you're willing to admit you're a hypocrite. But humble, you are not.
Hmm, i still have not heard a good reason to believe in a god. I know there are 1000s of gods that have been claimed to exist, so you would think at least a few of the followers would be able to put forth a good reason for one of them. Instead, I hear ppl like you asking for proof from the atheists that no god exists. What use is that? You make an extraordinary claim such as 'my god Zeus is real' and then back that up by asking me to prove your god (which ever it may be) is false? How many gods would you like me to disprove? What does this have to do with why people should believe in any of these gods?
If I were to break the news to you that I am your god, I created you and you should worship me, when you ask me to prove my claim I can simply retort quite truthful that you cannot disprove it. Until you do does that mean our positions are on equal footing? Do you find yourself at all convinced by my stupid argument? I would assume not, yet it is the argument you are employing here.
Soooo does that mean that the only intellectually honest position on unicorns and fairies is Agnosticism? The only reason anyone would argue such nonsense is because they are still convinced that there is the possibility of such a thing. In reality, there is no more evidence to support the "possibility" for a god than there is for unicorns. Really, there isn't.
devnullJan 23, 2012Buried
I want my kid to be free thinker. Question everything, and be rewarded for it.
I believe there is something out there, Flying Spaghetti Monster? Maybe...Thetans..hehe..maybe... Magic wizard man that can raiset the dead? Maybe.
Anything is possible.
If there's anything that people should take from religion is this:
Don't be a dick (I came to this idea before I saw the Penny-Arcade shirt, I want that shirt)
in other words, Love your neighbors, and appreciate your good fortune.
Atheist are not assh**es, Religious are not assh**es.
People who try to force their belief or non-belief on others are assh**es.
My child will not be raised to be an assh**e.
Dev
The_SovereignJan 23, 2012Buried
Children are born atheists.
anub1sJan 23, 2012Buried
I'm sorry but you're misleading everyone with your usage of the word agnostic. Agnosticism is separated categorically thusly: Agnostic theist, or agnostic atheist. You have to lean one way or the other if you have ANY doubts to either position, otherwise you're a gnostic atheist, or a gnostic theist, also known as strong atheism or theism.
You're still either an atheist or a theist. If you're an agnostic atheist, one who doesn't believe that a god exists, but leaves open the possibility, that's one thing, but claiming that agnositics are different from atheists just shows you're either wilfully or ignorantly misusing the term "agnostic".
Claiming to be an atheist is nothing more than showing doubt that a god exists or being able to say "I don't know.". Claiming to be a gnostic or strong atheist, is being entirely closed minded as to the existence of any god in any form. Which in my mind is a bad position, as you state.
Please do us all a favor though and use the term correctly.
assassyn360Jan 23, 2012Buried
I shall spread this word of this holy scripture on the authorized holy medium of Facebook. It is originated surely from his meatballsness. Flying spaghetti monster's holy sauce shall wash away thou sin with words of wisdom and ragu. Blessed be the noodley appendages. Amen.
Let he who is without sin toss the first meatball. For the day of reckoning is nigh. Those who do not believe will be forced into submission and banished into oblivion and shallest endure frozen dinners of fish sticks and freezer burned French fries. For these are the words of our lord.
Ingredient 2:45
vampirehimJan 23, 2012Buried
Beautiful
stubearJan 23, 2012Buried
No, agnostics do NOT believe that a god exists, they believe that one cannot know whether or not a god exists and choose to lead their lives through an internal common sense moral compass that lets them know the difference between right and wrong without having to worry about eternal damnation.
We also believe that Atheists are every bit as wrong as Theists because Atheists claim to know something which is unknowable. They simply believe that god doesn't, nor can, exist with every bit as much proof as Theists who believe the opposite.
Just to be clear, agnosticism comes from the greek work knosos which means knowledge. the prefix means without. It really can't be any clearer then that.
The_SovereignJan 23, 2012Buried
You wouldn't? Well, if you want to keep your kids illiterate, I suppose that's your business, but you might find it difficult and not terribly rewarding.
All I know is I sure wouldn't want to teach my kids a bunch of lies and superstition from thousands of years ago, unless I make sure that they understand there is no distinction between religious myth and other fairy tales.
elimgarakJan 23, 2012Buried
Small correction - the only intellectually honest position is agnosticism bordering on atheism, since there is ample proof that virtually every testable fact in the bible is wrong. There is just as much reason to believe in magical space fairies as in god.
http://www.calamitiesofnature.com/archive/?c=561
savetheseaJan 23, 2012Buried
I bought an amazing book about all the religions of the world. When my kids ask religious questions, and they do, e open the book and read about the religion and discuss it. I present it as "this is what Christians/Muslims/Jews/Buddhists believe". Sometimes the result is a simple head nod and sometimes it results in further discussion. One thing I never do is demean the religion, just present the facts and listen to responses while always treating the beliefs with neither admiration or criticism.
bookantJan 23, 2012Buried
"We also believe that Atheists are every bit as wrong as Theists because Atheists claim to know something which is unknowable. They simply believe that god doesn't, nor can, exist with every bit as much proof as Theists who believe the opposite."
Exept that what you're describing isn't atheism. It isn't a claim of absolute knowledge, it's an absense of belief. That's it.
Agnostic, on the other hand, is basically a cop-out for those who aren't willing to throw out irrational belief altogether. If I told you there was an invisible (cloaked) space-station left over from the alien race that seeded life on Earth orbiting just behind the Moon . . . . would you be "agnostic" about it given your inability to disprove my statement with absolute certainty? Are you "agnostic" about Leprechans, Fairies, Mermaids, Sea Monsters and Werewolves?
There's no need to hedge your bets with "agnotic," since atheism makes no claim of certainty. I'm equally "atheist" about all those examples I just gave you . . . but that no way implies I wouldn't immediately change my position tomorrow if evidence were presented that made it clear I was wrong.
paulneyJan 23, 2012Buried
Ramen.
elimgarakJan 23, 2012Buried
If you don't present all sides of the argument and all scientific perspectives to a child, then you are forcing him to believe in god. That's not free will. Unless you explicitly teach the child to apply the scientific method to his surroundings, you are intellectually pushing him into a specific mold and mindset.
anub1sJan 23, 2012Buried
I'm sorry, but you weren't an atheist, and if you think those things happening in your life are a part of some gods will, you're extremely concieted and extremely ignorant.
I keep an open mind, but I'm not concieted enough to think that some being that has never shown a single proof of its existence, that is also omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient would give a single moments thought about what I do on a day to day basis, who I sleep with, or indeed even what I think.
There are some awesome things that have happened in my life, but every last one of them has had an explanation. Every single one. Just because some good things have happened to me doesn't mean god favors me, because if he does, he REALLY hates about half of the worlds population. Some god.
wolfingJan 23, 2012Buried
what gets me is when someone is 'miraculously' cured of something, it's a miracle from God... so how did you call it when they got sick in the first place?
elimgarakJan 23, 2012Buried
Nope, not so much.
1. This dogma is something that many people literally believe actually happened. So it isn't that wrong to not believe that and to use it as proof to claim that these religions are actually, explicitly wrong.
2. Yes, there is no actual proof that a super-powerful space guy did not create everything and everyone. There is also no actual proof that a little magical pixies aren't secretly running on treadmills inside the sun in order to power it. Both are equally valid or invalid based on evidence. There is no way to KNOW that magical pixies are not in charge of the sun.
Therefore, we do know that most of what most religions explicitly teach is false. Which is why I said agnosticism bordering on atheism. We don't know 100% that god doesn't exist, but everything we do know points to evidence that he doesn't. Which is why I said "agnosticism" and not actual atheism.
MusicManGPJan 23, 2012Buried
If you don't "believe in" evolution, you haven't learned enough about it.
elimgarakJan 23, 2012Buried
"Do you have any idea on how much evidence exists to prove there is a god?"
Yup. None.
"Science is ever evolving why, because they are constantly wrong"
ROTFMLAO! That's hilarious!
anub1sJan 23, 2012Buried
You're concieted because you think you know the will of your god. You think you're doing your gods work, you think that everyone else is wrong because they're not doing what YOU think is gods will.
At least you're willing to admit you're a hypocrite. But humble, you are not.
UltiumJan 24, 2012Buried
raintrain34:
Hmm, i still have not heard a good reason to believe in a god. I know there are 1000s of gods that have been claimed to exist, so you would think at least a few of the followers would be able to put forth a good reason for one of them. Instead, I hear ppl like you asking for proof from the atheists that no god exists. What use is that? You make an extraordinary claim such as 'my god Zeus is real' and then back that up by asking me to prove your god (which ever it may be) is false? How many gods would you like me to disprove? What does this have to do with why people should believe in any of these gods?
If I were to break the news to you that I am your god, I created you and you should worship me, when you ask me to prove my claim I can simply retort quite truthful that you cannot disprove it. Until you do does that mean our positions are on equal footing? Do you find yourself at all convinced by my stupid argument? I would assume not, yet it is the argument you are employing here.
talphinJan 23, 2012Buried
Soooo does that mean that the only intellectually honest position on unicorns and fairies is Agnosticism? The only reason anyone would argue such nonsense is because they are still convinced that there is the possibility of such a thing. In reality, there is no more evidence to support the "possibility" for a god than there is for unicorns. Really, there isn't.