“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
"People want to believe or disbelieve certain things," Butler said. "Our research assumes people are open to correction. People who don't want to believe in another candidate, for example, may not be open to even considering that the new information is correct."
Well that's certainly true. You can state facts, link them to credible sources and someone will echo misinformation as if it's fact. I think we all need to be more open to learning.
The "Palin can see Russia from her house" bit was a joke. You know that, right? You understand that no one seriously thought she had said that. It was a joke based on her wild assertion that Alaska's proximity to Russia gave her foreign policy experience.
There really is no analogue on the left for all the lies and misinformation that conservatives traffik in.
Conservatives don't believe in evolution or climate change. They think Obama is a sekret Kenyan, Muslim, socialist, Nazi, communist...
Conservatives are convinced that cutting taxes has little affect on the debt, fertilized eggs are "babies", we can drill our way to energy independence, poor people caused the Bush Depression, deregulation has no ill effects...
There really isn't that sort of equivalent on the left.
If the issues I raise are a bit vague, it is only because I grow weary of writing multi paragraph diatribes only to have them erased with a single bury from the inevitable Patriot/Obamanaut brigade. Since you took time with your questions, I feel I owe you an answer.
1) People WANT TO believe that welfare people are lazy drug users who have enough money but are just scamming the system and wasting their money. THAT is why they want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per cycle to test these layabouts and junkies.
Of course, we know now that only 2% of the people failed and it cost more to essentially strip poor people of their 4th Amendment than they saved by "weeding out the tokers/jokers". http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/aug/24/3/welfare-drug-testing-yields-2-percent-positive-res-ar-252458/
The LOGIC was never there, it was something they wanted to believe despite the facts staring them in the face.
2) Wearing baggy pants has a tiny place in prison culture, but more so (much more so) in the usual inner-city lower class culture. You got hand me downs to wear and they didnt always fit. Even though your pants were too big, you could still pleat them and wash them and cinch them off with a belt (you dont get the belt in prison). This is where gold chains come in also. It is the basic building block of status to a poor kid. That is why kids fought so hard for them (like shoes that you better not step on!) and why Mr T wore a lot of them and Run DMC wore big ones. Has nothing to do with jail and everything to do with showing a bit of status. The roots of baggy jeans come from kids (WITH BELTS) pleating and washing their hand me downs. http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Autobiography-L-Member/dp/0140232257
3) The Drug War was never about stopping drugs. The first drug laws were to get a handle on Mexicans in the south west. People recognize that alcoholism/drug abuse IS A DISEASE, but then they lock the people with diseases in prison. A woman who abuses her prescription for valium and mixes it with a glass of wine would look down on a heroin junkie. My grandfather (alcoholic) wanted to kick my uncle out of the house for smoking pot. Even within methheads, the guy who snorts it is "cooler" than the guy who smokes it and he is cooler than the guy who injects it. It is all invisible status that only exists in a non-logical mind. YOU are just having a good time...THEY are junkies who should be in jail. The drug war doesnt work yet it is still "going strong"....that only works if people believe misinformation. http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock
4) In ever war each side dehumanizes the other side. It has always been that way. That side eats their dead! Those guys are less than rats! Krauts! Japs! Zipperheads! Gooks! and now "Hajis". It is hard to kill a person, let alone feel justified to mutilate/desecrate their corpses unless you are pretty sure that they are beneath you. The "name game" is an effective way (but far from the only way) to dehumanize your enemy. If some guy broke into your house and you felt your family was in danger....you would be justified in shooting him, but where do you find justification for slicing up his face or s**tting on his chest? It takes a belief in the misinformation that "these people are less than you are". http://northstarguide.wordpress.com/tag/dehumanization/
5) Christians are against abortion because they believe that a zygote is, in fact, a human life. In fact, a zygote is only thought of as a life by religious people. Scientists and people who dont get their science from a 2000 year old Holy Book have discovered a lot since the days of Moses and Jesus....but the Christians choose to believe THEIR STORY (which defies science and logic). THAT is why you dont see 98% of the population trying to close down abortion clinics. If there was REALLY a place killing infants, NOBODY would stand for it...it wouldnt just be Westboro clones in tiny numbers outside of those clinics. You have the right to your opinions, but not to an excuse for your misinformed convictions. http://sciencefocus.com/qa/sperm-alive
All of this is tied up in a bow that is called "Why People Believe Misinformation, Even After It's Corrected"
On Facebook I have had many people, even non-idiots, post stuff like "We need to drug test people on welfare" and "wearing baggy pants comes from prison culture and means you are an available homosexual".
While none of this is true and has been proven false to their faces, they continue to believe it. They believe it because they WANT TO believe it. They want a better excuse to belittle and dehumanize the people they dont agree with and with whom they have already decided they dont respect.
The drug war is like that....pissing on dead Taliban is like that.....Christians against abortion are like that....
It isnt a purely right wing trait at all, but you will certainly find a lot of that amongst conservative thinkers.
1) I am not conceding to you on this, but I dont believe you can prove the assertion you made. I will still play devils advocate with you...and say that only 2% failed the tests BECAUSE of their fear of losing their benefits. How addicted are you if you can quit for money? If you ARENT an addict, then "recreational drug use" shouldnt be any more shocking than buying a 12 pack of Bud Light (perfectly legal and not tested for). Lots of holes.
3) No conspiracy theory at all. Many opium laws were passed to control Chinese...the first marijuana laws were to control Mexicans. Since WR Hearst was both instrumental in making the "threat" of these drugs and their browner-than-us users and able to publish his views and stories through his own publications (he was the Rupert Murdoch of his day). It isnt a conspiracy theory if it is in every newspaper of the time. I give you the credit of being intelligent and literate enough to know that peanuts kill more people in this country every year than marijuana has ever killed. The drug war in general hasnt worked and has been expensive. To link marijuana in with heroin should be enough to show you how much "misinformation" has to be believed (and from day one) to make something harmless illegal in The Land Of The Free.
4) Not only is it relevant, it is the core problem with every issue we are discussing and most that come up in day to day life. You are in a line of traffic...you are running late for work...notice how everyone around you is an idiot with no agenda? It happens to all of us. Of course logic would tell us that they are as smart and as busy as we are, but that isnt what you think or a reflection of how you act behind the wheel at all times. It is provable that people are less polite in vehicles and more prone to lie over the phone (even more by text). It requires a lack of empathy and a disconnect from the value of others as they relate to you. Im not a Christian, but it seems to me that Jesus' best teachings (especially the book of Matthew) make a big point out of this. They spend much more time on empathy than they do homophobia or the politics of baby-making.
5) There are plenty of scientists that believe in God. I'm sure I could find a list of THOUSANDS of doctors who believe life begins at conception.....but they would also tell you that sperm and egg cells are alive also. Even the majority of Pro Lifers I have seen polled (your side, to a degree) wouldnt deny an abortion to a woman who was raped or whose baby was a product of incest. How hypocrital of a Christian! Since when is murder a forgivable sin when preceded by rape? That isnt Christian or the spirit against "cruel and unusual" treatment in America. Even the Pro Life side doesnt REALLY see it as murder (besides the Westboro-ish fringe)
This goes a long way to explaining why people on the left and right are all entrenched in equally inaccurate portrayals of what really is and is not happening.
And the old one about how "Al Gore claimed he invented the internet" is just as untrue, but that didn't stop it from being repeated and believed no matter how many times it was debunked with the actual quote.
There are a lot of politically-charged comments here...politics is a bit different. It's not just a matter of hearing the same misinformation repeatedly (as suggested in this article); "research suggests that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts — and often become even more attached to their beliefs."
While I disagree with many of David's conclusions, this is a cogent and reasonable statement that does not deserve to be auto-buried due to the author. If we want to have reasonable discussions then this is the type of post we should encourage - not bury.
I as a liberal don't get upset when other people are happy. So by your logic, you are misinformed and you happen to be a conservative. And by that logic, one could argue that conservatives are misinformed right?
Just because you as a conservative don't agree with Cybersaur's assertions doesn't mean that he is wrong. Our local conservative radio talk show host fits every one of those assertions and claims that they are conservative "values".
So who is more misinformed, you or the talk show host?
Our minds do not readily replace old information with new information. If something I believe to be true is worth repeating, there are two ways to handle that. Trust the people who read or hear my information to tell me if there is any doubt about its currency. Or research the current best information, before speaking or posting. I try not to trust either my memory, or the state of knowledge about a topic at the time I last studied it. Everything has to be distrusted, verified, and updated.
anomaly100Feb 9, 2012Buried
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
~ Quote by Joseph Goebbels.
concusionFeb 8, 2012Buried
digg is a perfect example. Never realized how many imbeciles could just throw away plain facts just to skew the world to how they want.
anomaly100Feb 8, 2012Buried
"People want to believe or disbelieve certain things," Butler said. "Our research assumes people are open to correction. People who don't want to believe in another candidate, for example, may not be open to even considering that the new information is correct."
Well that's certainly true. You can state facts, link them to credible sources and someone will echo misinformation as if it's fact. I think we all need to be more open to learning.
leodinFeb 9, 2012Buried
The "Palin can see Russia from her house" bit was a joke. You know that, right? You understand that no one seriously thought she had said that. It was a joke based on her wild assertion that Alaska's proximity to Russia gave her foreign policy experience.
cybersaurFeb 8, 2012Buried
There really is no analogue on the left for all the lies and misinformation that conservatives traffik in.
Conservatives don't believe in evolution or climate change. They think Obama is a sekret Kenyan, Muslim, socialist, Nazi, communist...
Conservatives are convinced that cutting taxes has little affect on the debt, fertilized eggs are "babies", we can drill our way to energy independence, poor people caused the Bush Depression, deregulation has no ill effects...
There really isn't that sort of equivalent on the left.
igorunchainedFeb 9, 2012Buried
If the issues I raise are a bit vague, it is only because I grow weary of writing multi paragraph diatribes only to have them erased with a single bury from the inevitable Patriot/Obamanaut brigade. Since you took time with your questions, I feel I owe you an answer.
1) People WANT TO believe that welfare people are lazy drug users who have enough money but are just scamming the system and wasting their money. THAT is why they want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per cycle to test these layabouts and junkies.
Of course, we know now that only 2% of the people failed and it cost more to essentially strip poor people of their 4th Amendment than they saved by "weeding out the tokers/jokers".
http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/aug/24/3/welfare-drug-testing-yields-2-percent-positive-res-ar-252458/
The LOGIC was never there, it was something they wanted to believe despite the facts staring them in the face.
2) Wearing baggy pants has a tiny place in prison culture, but more so (much more so) in the usual inner-city lower class culture. You got hand me downs to wear and they didnt always fit. Even though your pants were too big, you could still pleat them and wash them and cinch them off with a belt (you dont get the belt in prison). This is where gold chains come in also. It is the basic building block of status to a poor kid. That is why kids fought so hard for them (like shoes that you better not step on!) and why Mr T wore a lot of them and Run DMC wore big ones. Has nothing to do with jail and everything to do with showing a bit of status. The roots of baggy jeans come from kids (WITH BELTS) pleating and washing their hand me downs. http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Autobiography-L-Member/dp/0140232257
3) The Drug War was never about stopping drugs. The first drug laws were to get a handle on Mexicans in the south west. People recognize that alcoholism/drug abuse IS A DISEASE, but then they lock the people with diseases in prison. A woman who abuses her prescription for valium and mixes it with a glass of wine would look down on a heroin junkie. My grandfather (alcoholic) wanted to kick my uncle out of the house for smoking pot. Even within methheads, the guy who snorts it is "cooler" than the guy who smokes it and he is cooler than the guy who injects it. It is all invisible status that only exists in a non-logical mind. YOU are just having a good time...THEY are junkies who should be in jail. The drug war doesnt work yet it is still "going strong"....that only works if people believe misinformation. http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock
4) In ever war each side dehumanizes the other side. It has always been that way. That side eats their dead! Those guys are less than rats! Krauts! Japs! Zipperheads! Gooks! and now "Hajis". It is hard to kill a person, let alone feel justified to mutilate/desecrate their corpses unless you are pretty sure that they are beneath you. The "name game" is an effective way (but far from the only way) to dehumanize your enemy. If some guy broke into your house and you felt your family was in danger....you would be justified in shooting him, but where do you find justification for slicing up his face or s**tting on his chest? It takes a belief in the misinformation that "these people are less than you are".
http://northstarguide.wordpress.com/tag/dehumanization/
5) Christians are against abortion because they believe that a zygote is, in fact, a human life. In fact, a zygote is only thought of as a life by religious people. Scientists and people who dont get their science from a 2000 year old Holy Book have discovered a lot since the days of Moses and Jesus....but the Christians choose to believe THEIR STORY (which defies science and logic). THAT is why you dont see 98% of the population trying to close down abortion clinics. If there was REALLY a place killing infants, NOBODY would stand for it...it wouldnt just be Westboro clones in tiny numbers outside of those clinics. You have the right to your opinions, but not to an excuse for your misinformed convictions.
http://sciencefocus.com/qa/sperm-alive
All of this is tied up in a bow that is called "Why People Believe Misinformation, Even After It's Corrected"
igorunchainedFeb 9, 2012Buried
On Facebook I have had many people, even non-idiots, post stuff like "We need to drug test people on welfare" and "wearing baggy pants comes from prison culture and means you are an available homosexual".
While none of this is true and has been proven false to their faces, they continue to believe it. They believe it because they WANT TO believe it. They want a better excuse to belittle and dehumanize the people they dont agree with and with whom they have already decided they dont respect.
The drug war is like that....pissing on dead Taliban is like that.....Christians against abortion are like that....
It isnt a purely right wing trait at all, but you will certainly find a lot of that amongst conservative thinkers.
igorunchainedFeb 9, 2012Buried
1) I am not conceding to you on this, but I dont believe you can prove the assertion you made. I will still play devils advocate with you...and say that only 2% failed the tests BECAUSE of their fear of losing their benefits. How addicted are you if you can quit for money? If you ARENT an addict, then "recreational drug use" shouldnt be any more shocking than buying a 12 pack of Bud Light (perfectly legal and not tested for). Lots of holes.
3) No conspiracy theory at all. Many opium laws were passed to control Chinese...the first marijuana laws were to control Mexicans. Since WR Hearst was both instrumental in making the "threat" of these drugs and their browner-than-us users and able to publish his views and stories through his own publications (he was the Rupert Murdoch of his day). It isnt a conspiracy theory if it is in every newspaper of the time. I give you the credit of being intelligent and literate enough to know that peanuts kill more people in this country every year than marijuana has ever killed. The drug war in general hasnt worked and has been expensive. To link marijuana in with heroin should be enough to show you how much "misinformation" has to be believed (and from day one) to make something harmless illegal in The Land Of The Free.
4) Not only is it relevant, it is the core problem with every issue we are discussing and most that come up in day to day life. You are in a line of traffic...you are running late for work...notice how everyone around you is an idiot with no agenda? It happens to all of us. Of course logic would tell us that they are as smart and as busy as we are, but that isnt what you think or a reflection of how you act behind the wheel at all times. It is provable that people are less polite in vehicles and more prone to lie over the phone (even more by text). It requires a lack of empathy and a disconnect from the value of others as they relate to you. Im not a Christian, but it seems to me that Jesus' best teachings (especially the book of Matthew) make a big point out of this. They spend much more time on empathy than they do homophobia or the politics of baby-making.
5) There are plenty of scientists that believe in God. I'm sure I could find a list of THOUSANDS of doctors who believe life begins at conception.....but they would also tell you that sperm and egg cells are alive also. Even the majority of Pro Lifers I have seen polled (your side, to a degree) wouldnt deny an abortion to a woman who was raped or whose baby was a product of incest. How hypocrital of a Christian! Since when is murder a forgivable sin when preceded by rape? That isnt Christian or the spirit against "cruel and unusual" treatment in America. Even the Pro Life side doesnt REALLY see it as murder (besides the Westboro-ish fringe)
nickchopperFeb 8, 2012Buried
This goes a long way to explaining why people on the left and right are all entrenched in equally inaccurate portrayals of what really is and is not happening.
bostic30Feb 9, 2012Buried
Blind leading the blind!!
kantspelwriteFeb 9, 2012Buried
Perception is often more potent than the truth.
johnnickFeb 9, 2012Buried
And the old one about how "Al Gore claimed he invented the internet" is just as untrue, but that didn't stop it from being repeated and believed no matter how many times it was debunked with the actual quote.
crom99Feb 9, 2012Buried
I'd rather have a pill, thanks.
Also... what? When did I say anything about global warming?
bdbrFeb 9, 2012Buried
There are a lot of politically-charged comments here...politics is a bit different. It's not just a matter of hearing the same misinformation repeatedly (as suggested in this article); "research suggests that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts — and often become even more attached to their beliefs."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128490874
rufiohoFeb 9, 2012Buried
Agreed. Both sides are prone to exaggerate and be closed minded.
johnnickFeb 9, 2012Buried
While I disagree with many of David's conclusions, this is a cogent and reasonable statement that does not deserve to be auto-buried due to the author. If we want to have reasonable discussions then this is the type of post we should encourage - not bury.
ondaedgxFeb 10, 2012Buried
I as a liberal don't get upset when other people are happy. So by your logic, you are misinformed and you happen to be a conservative. And by that logic, one could argue that conservatives are misinformed right?
Just because you as a conservative don't agree with Cybersaur's assertions doesn't mean that he is wrong. Our local conservative radio talk show host fits every one of those assertions and claims that they are conservative "values".
So who is more misinformed, you or the talk show host?
crom99Feb 9, 2012Buried
Perhaps they can make a pill to fix it.
sloppyjoes7Feb 9, 2012Buried
1) "We need to drug test people on welfare"
That's an opinion on public policy, and is thus neither factual nor misinformation.
2) "wearing baggy pants comes from prison culture and means you are an available homosexual".
That's half true, half false.
http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp
3) "The drug war is like that"
There is indeed a war on drugs. Are you saying there shouldn't be one?
4) "pissing on dead Taliban is like that"
That happened. I'm not sure where you're going with this...
5) "Christians against abortion are like that"
We believe in rights for the unborn.
What a crazy post. Sometimes, I think people just type their train of thought, unedited, without realizing how hard it is to understand.
jimpivonkaFeb 9, 2012Buried
Our minds do not readily replace old information with new information. If something I believe to be true is worth repeating, there are two ways to handle that. Trust the people who read or hear my information to tell me if there is any doubt about its currency. Or research the current best information, before speaking or posting. I try not to trust either my memory, or the state of knowledge about a topic at the time I last studied it. Everything has to be distrusted, verified, and updated.