Advice from a 20 year old on what to do with the rest of your life? Yes because he has sooo much life experience to draw from, am I right?
Listen kids, do the smart thing and go to college, but just make sure you pick the right subject to get a degree in. I seriously doubt i would be making 6 figures without my degree in Mechanical Engineering. My wife on the other hand doesn't have a degree and even though shes a manager for a large retail chain, she still makes less than 1/3 of what I do.
I got my first jobs by putting projects I did as a hobby on my resume. Now, I've done so much professionally there's not much room or need for hobby stuff except to show that programming is something I like to do.
That's fine if you don't want to go to college (maybe) but you better be doing some impressive, resume worthy things.
College just certifies through an independent third party that you're not an idiot. If you can demonstrate your non-idiocy through hobby projects and the ability to communicate like an intelligent human being, then you might convince people you're worth something on your own.
I have a degree in math and will have a master's in secondary education. I have them because they get you past HR. Also, it turns out you learn things in college you may not even realized you needed to know or even existed to be known.
You're right in terms of economic realities; however, a major isn't bulls**t just because there isn't "rising demand in sight." Some people study things in order to learn about them.
I taught a senior level undergrad engineering class a few years ago. I have a daughter shopping for colleges. I am a member of the school accountability committee at my daughter's high school. I work with (and mentor) new engineering grads on a regular basis. I know how to use capital letters and punctuation.
you're completely right. taking up a bulls**t major with no rising demand in sight is going to get you nowhere but into debt. However, taking up a major that has high demand will, as you know, bring you a healthy paycheck.
not to mention unemployment for those with a degree is much lower than those without; and continues to shrink with higher degrees.
this guy is making assumptions off his own experience and extrapolating out a completely false conclusion
Interesting article. I skipped college due to certain circumstances in my life at the time and ended up in a better place career-wise than most of my peers in the short term - all of whom went to great schools but ended up job hunting as the recession hit. Many are working at Starbucks or hopping into a Masters' program of some sort to postpone the inevitable student loan payments while I've been gaining valuable job experience for over five years.
One of the problems with not getting your degree (as I'm finding out now) is that is limits your ability to move up in an organization and make more money (although there may be a few exceptions).
Even if you have the personality and ability to flourish in a career-path, you often need that piece of paper to satisfy a company's internal requirements for the job or simply to match yourself with other candidates vying for that position. Also, I've found myself turned down for numerous positions (specifically consulting gigs) that my superiors said they'd love to have me in but the clients I'd be working with required the individual have a college degree. Mind you, these positions pay twice what I'm making now.
Long story short: I'm going back to college - not because I'm sure I'll learn a lot but because if I want to move ahead in my field, I need it. The author may be right about not needing a degree for self-employment, but when it comes to working in a large organization this kid doesn't know what he's talking about.
That's more or less what I was going to say. In some fields (like engineering) a degree is essential; actually, a graduate degree is almost essential for advancement. I run into very smart people everyday who are underemployed because of their lack of degree. I used to teach an (evening) undergrad class in a engineering technology program at a local college. Most of the students were 30-40 year olds who had peaked in their careers and needed a degree to advance further. Being an undergrad at that age is very hard work.
Some folks may be able to do well without any post-secondary education, but if you want to play the odds you need some type of degree/certification (not necessarily a four year degree).
As someone who teaches in the humanities, I wholeheartedly agree. Many majors have been dumbed down simply because there are too many people enrolled in them who really aren't capable of college-level work. It's a problem that's destroying the university system.
I can relate to how Mr. Stephens feels. I am currently an education major and understand where he is coming from. The problem is that it's very difficult to get a decent paying job without a degree. The only way I see you could make great money without going to college is by starting your own business, but there is no guarantee that you will make a dime.
Our current college bubble is caused by so many people getting college educations.
Yes, most are in subjects that are almost useless, but they took those subjects because they're not smart enough to take a useful one. The smaller group is people who took a subject because they truly enjoy it, but now they're screwed because there's too many people in their field, even if most of them are bad.
Some people should go to college and some people shouldn't. When every one goes to college, it causes the cost of college to rise. This is why college is so f'n expensive. On top of that, now we have people with a ton of debt and they're still barely better off than skipping college.
On top of it, you have that whole issue with humans that we don't like to give up once we've vested into something. Someone goes to college, tries to take a useful major, finds out it's too hard. Now that they can't go any further, they switch majors. Not wanting to acquire too much more debt, they take one of the easier ones. They don't want to drop out of college because they've already put a bunch of money into it, only to find out it won't help them anyway.
I'm an optimist and a realist. While I think education is VERY important, I also understand that it's not free and it costs A LOT of money. I would love to hear some good arguments against what I said because the optimist in me still wants people to better themselves.
Getting a degree just because of high demand and high pay expectations isn't always a good idea, especially if it's a technical degree. The worst thing you can possibly do is get into debt for a career-oriented degree for a career field that you later realize you hate.
Most degrees can get you somewhere with hard work. Statistics can't tell the whole story, because they don't tell us how hard people are working to make use of their education after college. Degrees that aren't career-specific require a higher degree of creativity and exploration to make use of on the job market, but they also allow more flexibility. For hardworking, talented people who don't want to commit to a career track at 18, "bulls**t" arts and humanities degrees are an excellent choice. Every day I work around a ton of people with humanities backgrounds who are doing quite well because they're smart and they work hard.
Really, the only bad degrees are vocational degrees in dying or extremely overcrowded fields. Anything else is worth the time and money if you're the type of person who knows how to make use of the resources the degree gives you.
Except, we 40 somethings (and 50 somethings) are still the ones doing the hiring. If you want a job in a technical field, you are going to have to show a piece of paper to some old guy or you won't even get a chance to talk your way into a job. ;-)
If your goal is learning, it shouldn't bother you that half your program isn't directly related to your field. A narrow education is a bad education. Maybe it would be good training, but not a good education.
That's what testing out of classes is for. Most colleges will allow you to test out of the big chunk of the core and move up to more advanced offerings.
But having graded my fair share of undergrad papers, most aren't perfectly capable of writing a coherent essay, so required writing classes definitely aren't a waste of time for most students.
Having read my fair share of documents written by engineers (most with graduate degrees), most students could stand to take a few more writing classes. After about 15 years, technical folks will usually advance to the point were they spend more time writing than doing the technical work they were trained for.
This right here is the basic truth. Most companies I have worked for would hire someone known and recommended by an existing employee over someone off the street. This is why networking is so valuable. If you know someone in the company that will vouch for you then you just jumped over all the others who don't.
rjeyFeb 2, 2012Buried
Advice from a 20 year old on what to do with the rest of your life? Yes because he has sooo much life experience to draw from, am I right?
Listen kids, do the smart thing and go to college, but just make sure you pick the right subject to get a degree in. I seriously doubt i would be making 6 figures without my degree in Mechanical Engineering. My wife on the other hand doesn't have a degree and even though shes a manager for a large retail chain, she still makes less than 1/3 of what I do.
kalvinbFeb 2, 2012Buried
I got my first jobs by putting projects I did as a hobby on my resume. Now, I've done so much professionally there's not much room or need for hobby stuff except to show that programming is something I like to do.
That's fine if you don't want to go to college (maybe) but you better be doing some impressive, resume worthy things.
College just certifies through an independent third party that you're not an idiot. If you can demonstrate your non-idiocy through hobby projects and the ability to communicate like an intelligent human being, then you might convince people you're worth something on your own.
I have a degree in math and will have a master's in secondary education. I have them because they get you past HR. Also, it turns out you learn things in college you may not even realized you needed to know or even existed to be known.
ratatratrFeb 2, 2012Buried
You're right in terms of economic realities; however, a major isn't bulls**t just because there isn't "rising demand in sight." Some people study things in order to learn about them.
craig1958Feb 3, 2012Buried
I taught a senior level undergrad engineering class a few years ago. I have a daughter shopping for colleges. I am a member of the school accountability committee at my daughter's high school. I work with (and mentor) new engineering grads on a regular basis. I know how to use capital letters and punctuation.
Dude, what do you know about modern education?
co7926Feb 2, 2012Buried
you're completely right. taking up a bulls**t major with no rising demand in sight is going to get you nowhere but into debt. However, taking up a major that has high demand will, as you know, bring you a healthy paycheck.
not to mention unemployment for those with a degree is much lower than those without; and continues to shrink with higher degrees.
this guy is making assumptions off his own experience and extrapolating out a completely false conclusion
howdoesseanrollFeb 2, 2012Buried
Interesting article. I skipped college due to certain circumstances in my life at the time and ended up in a better place career-wise than most of my peers in the short term - all of whom went to great schools but ended up job hunting as the recession hit. Many are working at Starbucks or hopping into a Masters' program of some sort to postpone the inevitable student loan payments while I've been gaining valuable job experience for over five years.
One of the problems with not getting your degree (as I'm finding out now) is that is limits your ability to move up in an organization and make more money (although there may be a few exceptions).
Even if you have the personality and ability to flourish in a career-path, you often need that piece of paper to satisfy a company's internal requirements for the job or simply to match yourself with other candidates vying for that position. Also, I've found myself turned down for numerous positions (specifically consulting gigs) that my superiors said they'd love to have me in but the clients I'd be working with required the individual have a college degree. Mind you, these positions pay twice what I'm making now.
Long story short: I'm going back to college - not because I'm sure I'll learn a lot but because if I want to move ahead in my field, I need it. The author may be right about not needing a degree for self-employment, but when it comes to working in a large organization this kid doesn't know what he's talking about.
craig1958Feb 2, 2012Buried
That's more or less what I was going to say. In some fields (like engineering) a degree is essential; actually, a graduate degree is almost essential for advancement. I run into very smart people everyday who are underemployed because of their lack of degree. I used to teach an (evening) undergrad class in a engineering technology program at a local college. Most of the students were 30-40 year olds who had peaked in their careers and needed a degree to advance further. Being an undergrad at that age is very hard work.
Some folks may be able to do well without any post-secondary education, but if you want to play the odds you need some type of degree/certification (not necessarily a four year degree).
pinkfish411Feb 3, 2012Buried
As someone who teaches in the humanities, I wholeheartedly agree. Many majors have been dumbed down simply because there are too many people enrolled in them who really aren't capable of college-level work. It's a problem that's destroying the university system.
liscombcFeb 2, 2012Buried
I can relate to how Mr. Stephens feels. I am currently an education major and understand where he is coming from. The problem is that it's very difficult to get a decent paying job without a degree. The only way I see you could make great money without going to college is by starting your own business, but there is no guarantee that you will make a dime.
andysasylumFeb 2, 2012Buried
That's what I did, and look at me! I'm internet famous.
alecbFeb 2, 2012Buried
Go to vocational school.
benjie25Feb 3, 2012Buried
Devils advocate here.
Our current college bubble is caused by so many people getting college educations.
Yes, most are in subjects that are almost useless, but they took those subjects because they're not smart enough to take a useful one. The smaller group is people who took a subject because they truly enjoy it, but now they're screwed because there's too many people in their field, even if most of them are bad.
Some people should go to college and some people shouldn't. When every one goes to college, it causes the cost of college to rise. This is why college is so f'n expensive. On top of that, now we have people with a ton of debt and they're still barely better off than skipping college.
On top of it, you have that whole issue with humans that we don't like to give up once we've vested into something. Someone goes to college, tries to take a useful major, finds out it's too hard. Now that they can't go any further, they switch majors. Not wanting to acquire too much more debt, they take one of the easier ones. They don't want to drop out of college because they've already put a bunch of money into it, only to find out it won't help them anyway.
I'm an optimist and a realist. While I think education is VERY important, I also understand that it's not free and it costs A LOT of money. I would love to hear some good arguments against what I said because the optimist in me still wants people to better themselves.
pinkfish411Feb 3, 2012Buried
Getting a degree just because of high demand and high pay expectations isn't always a good idea, especially if it's a technical degree. The worst thing you can possibly do is get into debt for a career-oriented degree for a career field that you later realize you hate.
Most degrees can get you somewhere with hard work. Statistics can't tell the whole story, because they don't tell us how hard people are working to make use of their education after college. Degrees that aren't career-specific require a higher degree of creativity and exploration to make use of on the job market, but they also allow more flexibility. For hardworking, talented people who don't want to commit to a career track at 18, "bulls**t" arts and humanities degrees are an excellent choice. Every day I work around a ton of people with humanities backgrounds who are doing quite well because they're smart and they work hard.
Really, the only bad degrees are vocational degrees in dying or extremely overcrowded fields. Anything else is worth the time and money if you're the type of person who knows how to make use of the resources the degree gives you.
craig1958Feb 3, 2012Buried
Except, we 40 somethings (and 50 somethings) are still the ones doing the hiring. If you want a job in a technical field, you are going to have to show a piece of paper to some old guy or you won't even get a chance to talk your way into a job. ;-)
pinkfish411Feb 3, 2012Buried
If your goal is learning, it shouldn't bother you that half your program isn't directly related to your field. A narrow education is a bad education. Maybe it would be good training, but not a good education.
pinkfish411Feb 3, 2012Buried
That's what testing out of classes is for. Most colleges will allow you to test out of the big chunk of the core and move up to more advanced offerings.
But having graded my fair share of undergrad papers, most aren't perfectly capable of writing a coherent essay, so required writing classes definitely aren't a waste of time for most students.
craig1958Feb 3, 2012Buried
Having read my fair share of documents written by engineers (most with graduate degrees), most students could stand to take a few more writing classes. After about 15 years, technical folks will usually advance to the point were they spend more time writing than doing the technical work they were trained for.
thespookFeb 3, 2012Buried
Requirements:
- Bachelor's degree required, master's degree preferred.
pdotkdotFeb 2, 2012Buried
It's not about what you know, but who you know.
norman619Feb 2, 2012Buried
This right here is the basic truth. Most companies I have worked for would hire someone known and recommended by an existing employee over someone off the street. This is why networking is so valuable. If you know someone in the company that will vouch for you then you just jumped over all the others who don't.