Not all video games are 'good' art.
Adding to humanity is not a requirement for art. If a kid comes home with crayon scribbles on paper how does it add to humanity?
Some, but not all, videogames are art. You have to be able to distinguish between what adds to humanity and what contributes nothing. Because so many videogames are simply rehashes of older games with better graphics and a slightly new storyline not all games add to the human condition.
This argument is so tiresome to me. Who cares? Create games with great gameplay and no one will ask otherwise. I'll even go further to say that some of my most favorite games (Quake, Starcraft, Counter-Strike, Street Fighter) are much more mechanical, mathematical, etc, and I'd much rather they not be abstract and 'artful'.
Oh god not this again. Relax people. Just because some old dude said they weren't art doesn't mean the aren't. Stop looking to other people for validation. If you think it's art then it is!
If you're going to be a know-it-all pedantic snob, at least make sure that you don't directly contradict dictionary definitions. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/art
Are movies art? Are those 30 second black and white silent films from the late 1800's, of a man walking around and not doing much, art?
Are cave paintings of stick horses art? What about the earliest known examples of story telling, things like myth and folklore, is that art?
Video games are a relatively new medium. It has evolved considerably from Pong, but still it's more Campbell Soup cans than the Last Supper.
Games like Shadow of the Collosus and Ico and indie games like Braid and Limbo are very much art in my opinion. And if you consider scifi/fantasy books to be art, why not RPGs like Mass Effect or the Elder Scrolls?
I think games definitely contain art, but generally are not when looked upon as a whole. I think so, because while they are scripted, they are ultimately controlled by the user. Super Mario Galaxy was an awesome game, had good visuals and excellent level design. But, can level design and playability be considered art? A game director can craft a beautiful story that is heart wrenching, but all it takes is someone spamming the CTRL key to make the main character teabag itself.
Is every movie art? Is every TV show art? No. There exist video games that I definitely consider art, but we need to differentiate between the wheat and the chaff. Just as (IMO) The Godfather is art and The Adventures of Pluto Nash is not, Bioshock is art and Extreme Sports with the Berenstein Bears is not.
People mistake 'playing' videogames and 'making' videogames. There is no art to playing a videogame. But making one, absolutely. I don't think Ebert understood that. His analogy was that 'videogames have a goal, you can win them-- you don't 'win' art.' But by that analogy, say, a beautiful ivory chessboard isn't art, despite the beautiful craftsmanship. The maker of the board is clearly an artist. The player using the board is a chess player.
This isn't a debate. This was crochety old people claiming stuff wasn't art. The same way that Oscars Committee declared that Tron couldn't win any Best Visual Effects awards because using computers was cheating.
f**king EVERYTHING is considered art. I've seen a guy defecating on stuff described as "Performance Art".
For some reason, though, old people think you can just write off "games" as a medium as "not art". I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly. Ask anyone who claims video games as a whole aren't art and then ask them if they can name one other medium they don't think is art. They won't be able to.
I think you'd be surprised at how many people will go back and play Bioshock in a decade. People play old games all the time, either with emulators or the original console or remakes. There are tons of people who didn't catch games like X-Com or Fallout1 or FFIV or Mario 3 the first time around and played them ten years later. System Shock 2, Silent Hill 2, Sim City, Civilization, Sonic, Doom, etc are all revisited and recommended to people who love games. Sure the graphics look dated but someone with a good imagination doesn't care as long as the gameplay is fun.
I would play Bioshock fifty years from now. It's more than just its graphics. You can still go back and play some SNES games today and they're sometimes better than what's out now. Chrono Trigger. Earthbound. Secret of Mana. Those games are still brilliant to me. Just as Bioshock is and will be a decade from now. Though I do agree that very few can be considered timeless.
jkmyoungAug 24, 2010Buried
Not all video games are 'good' art.
Adding to humanity is not a requirement for art. If a kid comes home with crayon scribbles on paper how does it add to humanity?
ieatcatfoodAug 24, 2010Buried
It shouldn't have to be called art by any fancy rich guy for it to be art to us.
stop worrying about what old people think of our new ideas. It's impossible for them to see it the way we do.
Unless you have a bitchin' grandpa
fenririiiAug 24, 2010Buried
Some, but not all, videogames are art. You have to be able to distinguish between what adds to humanity and what contributes nothing. Because so many videogames are simply rehashes of older games with better graphics and a slightly new storyline not all games add to the human condition.
slasherAug 24, 2010Buried
This argument is so tiresome to me. Who cares? Create games with great gameplay and no one will ask otherwise. I'll even go further to say that some of my most favorite games (Quake, Starcraft, Counter-Strike, Street Fighter) are much more mechanical, mathematical, etc, and I'd much rather they not be abstract and 'artful'.
bluehouseAug 24, 2010Buried
Oh god not this again. Relax people. Just because some old dude said they weren't art doesn't mean the aren't. Stop looking to other people for validation. If you think it's art then it is!
whiskeylemurAug 24, 2010Buried
If you're going to be a know-it-all pedantic snob, at least make sure that you don't directly contradict dictionary definitions.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/art
mywhitenoiseAug 24, 2010Buried
Who cares!?
effoffpunkAug 24, 2010Buried
Are movies art? Are those 30 second black and white silent films from the late 1800's, of a man walking around and not doing much, art?
Are cave paintings of stick horses art? What about the earliest known examples of story telling, things like myth and folklore, is that art?
Video games are a relatively new medium. It has evolved considerably from Pong, but still it's more Campbell Soup cans than the Last Supper.
Games like Shadow of the Collosus and Ico and indie games like Braid and Limbo are very much art in my opinion. And if you consider scifi/fantasy books to be art, why not RPGs like Mass Effect or the Elder Scrolls?
korberosAug 24, 2010Buried
All games are art. Some are just s**tty art.
mikemaniaAug 24, 2010Buried
I think games definitely contain art, but generally are not when looked upon as a whole. I think so, because while they are scripted, they are ultimately controlled by the user. Super Mario Galaxy was an awesome game, had good visuals and excellent level design. But, can level design and playability be considered art? A game director can craft a beautiful story that is heart wrenching, but all it takes is someone spamming the CTRL key to make the main character teabag itself.
felidaeusAug 24, 2010Buried
You seen any modern "art" of late?
Pretty much all of it is "Call of Duty a la Commode VII"
vicerexciserAug 24, 2010Buried
Is every movie art? Is every TV show art? No. There exist video games that I definitely consider art, but we need to differentiate between the wheat and the chaff. Just as (IMO) The Godfather is art and The Adventures of Pluto Nash is not, Bioshock is art and Extreme Sports with the Berenstein Bears is not.
reebee52Aug 24, 2010Buried
People mistake 'playing' videogames and 'making' videogames. There is no art to playing a videogame. But making one, absolutely. I don't think Ebert understood that. His analogy was that 'videogames have a goal, you can win them-- you don't 'win' art.' But by that analogy, say, a beautiful ivory chessboard isn't art, despite the beautiful craftsmanship. The maker of the board is clearly an artist. The player using the board is a chess player.
somerandomguyAug 24, 2010Buried
This isn't a debate. This was crochety old people claiming stuff wasn't art. The same way that Oscars Committee declared that Tron couldn't win any Best Visual Effects awards because using computers was cheating.
f**king EVERYTHING is considered art. I've seen a guy defecating on stuff described as "Performance Art".
For some reason, though, old people think you can just write off "games" as a medium as "not art". I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly. Ask anyone who claims video games as a whole aren't art and then ask them if they can name one other medium they don't think is art. They won't be able to.
If everything else is art, games are art, too.
whiskeylemurAug 24, 2010Buried
It's no more "commercial" art than movies, or than books which are specifically written with the intent to publish.
effoffpunkAug 24, 2010Buried
I think you'd be surprised at how many people will go back and play Bioshock in a decade. People play old games all the time, either with emulators or the original console or remakes. There are tons of people who didn't catch games like X-Com or Fallout1 or FFIV or Mario 3 the first time around and played them ten years later. System Shock 2, Silent Hill 2, Sim City, Civilization, Sonic, Doom, etc are all revisited and recommended to people who love games. Sure the graphics look dated but someone with a good imagination doesn't care as long as the gameplay is fun.
hatmadderAug 24, 2010Buried
I would play Bioshock fifty years from now. It's more than just its graphics. You can still go back and play some SNES games today and they're sometimes better than what's out now. Chrono Trigger. Earthbound. Secret of Mana. Those games are still brilliant to me. Just as Bioshock is and will be a decade from now. Though I do agree that very few can be considered timeless.
dizkoAug 24, 2010Buried
Yes, yes yes. Games are art, couldn't have said it better myself.
x9002Aug 25, 2010Buried
Nerds who want to find deeper meaning in the things they waste their lives on
itsnickkAug 24, 2010Buried
why?