I'm not sure I agree that our doctors are overpaid. 12 years of college and a few years as a intern. They should get paid well. The doctors my family go to aren't rich people. There are host of other problems that raise insurance also...
This is basically correct. I'm a third year med student and I'm already in 121k worth of debt. This is relatively small because I go to a state school. Tuition and living costs alone will put me right at about 160k when I'm done. On top of that, we pay for all of our board exams:
Step 1 - 525
Step 2 (CS and CK) - 2000
Step 3 - 730
On top of THAT, applying for residency involves paying application fees that range from a few hundred to a few thousand, depending on how many places you apply to. Then, you have to go on all the interviews which can cost multiple thousands of dollars for airfare and hotel rooms, etc.
Then when you finally start residency, you make 45k to work 80 hours a week (equivalent to making 24k and working 40 hours), and your debt accrues interest the whole time.
I'm not typing all this out for "woe is me" sympathy; I just want to make the point that a very significant portion of our income for many years goes just to paying back loans. Check out this graph for some perspective:
The reason medical doctors are overpaid is not due to the amount of schooling they go through. In fact, doctors in other areas of study such as biology, english, physics, math, etc, who go through the same amount of schooling often earn dramatically less than medical doctors.
The real reason medical doctors in the US are overpaid is because there are so few of them. Medical schools dramatically limit the number of incoming students to a certain amount each year in order to limit the number of qualified people graduating and entering the field. This limit keeps the supply of doctors low in comparison with the demand for doctors.
High demand + low supply = high price aka high wages
As the infographic states, other countries don't pay nearly as much to their doctors as we do. We should be demanding that medical schools train more students. We should also look into training foreign doctors to our medical standards and then providing them visas to move here.
Because he was bending over backwards to try to get the repubs onboard. He should have ditched them and gone for a simple single payer government scheme and killed off most of the insurance industry at the same time.
Too much seeking for political consensus with paid for idiots.
Clearly you haven't been reading your Ayn Rand. There is a perfectly good reason that Trump gets better care than you: he is rich and therefore more successful and therefore he matters more.
/how do people believe that bitch is anything other than a sociopath?
The same is true for anyone earning a PhD. However, PhDs in English, History, Math, Biology, or Physics aren't going to graduate into cushy jobs making the same buckets of money as a medical doctor.
Granted, some of these people aren't going to be putting in the same hours as you.
But, if your point is that somehow the cost of your education entitles you to a disproportionately higher salary compared to the average person, then I have to ask why these other groups of PhDs don't also earn a disproportionately higher salary. Among the highly educated, medical doctors are just another in an entire list of doctors.
The fact is that doctors earn what they earn based on simple supply and demand. The supply of doctors is maintained artificially low through manipulation by the American Medical Association of medical school enrollments. We could train a lot more doctors. But we choose not to. Further, they push for limits of foreign doctors to train to the US standards and move to the US.
This is definitely a valid point. It also depends on what kind of Dr you are too. Gen pract vs surgeon or other kind of specialist. I wonder what the cost of healthcare education is in these other countries.
So.. that's it? You make assertions that the infographic is wrong and your only defense is that your time is not free? Sounds to me that you can't refute it.
U.S. needs a single payer health system. Not sure why some are opposed to it. If I, a dog groomer, and Donald Trump each get diagnosed with cancer, guess who gets the best treatment and who will probably die within a year? Why is Donald Trump's life more valuable than mine? How can a healthier country overall be detrimental to our goals in the world?
Ahhym... I'm not anti corporate!! I'm ethical. Profiting off sickness and misery is the worst of all businesses practices. We'll get back to that in a minute.
Lets focus on a few points.
1. If you can afford stock options... you probably don't have a problem seeing a doctor or specialist when you need one.
2. Poor people don't buy stocks... so publicity traded or not the poor are excluded from that equation.
3 Large insurance companies, trade organization and industry associations spend millions of dollars to directly influence and lobby the government so they can operative with relative impunity. These organizations maintain their influence because of their close ties with the government and will pay big money to continue to do so.
The common man doesn't have that type of leverage and never will.
4. Fewer and fewer people can afford healthcare. The healthcare offered today compared to what it was 20 years ago is like the airline service. 20 years ago, airlines had bigger seats, bigger bathrooms less seats per plane little if any weight limit on luggage or carry-ons , included loads of amenities like peanuts, drinks, pillows as part of the service. Today for the relative price... you get no amenities and even pay the use of a pillow and are charged for checked and carryon baggage.
Healthcare today is you pay more and get less a lot less. s**t Corporations don't offer the same benefit packages as they did in the 70's-80's and 90's Hell, prior to the 70's most people could actually afford to pay for medical expenses out of pocket.
Compare that to our present system, where only the rich can manage to buy healthcare out of pocket.
My focus has been on the American system of things... Everything healthcare in the US costs more, a lot more, and generally you get a lot less because it's all about the bottom line... It's all about profit.
Compared to other countries where their systems are more, socialized and thus less about profit and the bottom line.
That's ok by me, profit has no place in healthcare. Capitalization on the illness of another sole is so morally and ethically wrong. Profiting on healthcare sterilizes it of humanity, compassion and transforms it into a has or has not system. Some like it this way... these are the people who say our system is just fine and dandy, the best system in the world.
woollymittensMay 6, 2011Buried
The USA is probably the only country in the world where people are protesting against healthcare. LOL.
centraltransMay 5, 2011Buried
I'm not sure I agree that our doctors are overpaid. 12 years of college and a few years as a intern. They should get paid well. The doctors my family go to aren't rich people. There are host of other problems that raise insurance also...
countess666May 6, 2011Buried
china only owns about 800billion of US debt. more then half of the government debt is owned to other Americans.
plutarchMay 6, 2011Buried
This is basically correct. I'm a third year med student and I'm already in 121k worth of debt. This is relatively small because I go to a state school. Tuition and living costs alone will put me right at about 160k when I'm done. On top of that, we pay for all of our board exams:
Step 1 - 525
Step 2 (CS and CK) - 2000
Step 3 - 730
On top of THAT, applying for residency involves paying application fees that range from a few hundred to a few thousand, depending on how many places you apply to. Then, you have to go on all the interviews which can cost multiple thousands of dollars for airfare and hotel rooms, etc.
Then when you finally start residency, you make 45k to work 80 hours a week (equivalent to making 24k and working 40 hours), and your debt accrues interest the whole time.
I'm not typing all this out for "woe is me" sympathy; I just want to make the point that a very significant portion of our income for many years goes just to paying back loans. Check out this graph for some perspective:
http://tinyurl.com/5uot8vr
goldiegillsMay 5, 2011Buried
USA! USA! USA!
xophermvMay 6, 2011Buried
The reason medical doctors are overpaid is not due to the amount of schooling they go through. In fact, doctors in other areas of study such as biology, english, physics, math, etc, who go through the same amount of schooling often earn dramatically less than medical doctors.
The real reason medical doctors in the US are overpaid is because there are so few of them. Medical schools dramatically limit the number of incoming students to a certain amount each year in order to limit the number of qualified people graduating and entering the field. This limit keeps the supply of doctors low in comparison with the demand for doctors.
High demand + low supply = high price aka high wages
As the infographic states, other countries don't pay nearly as much to their doctors as we do. We should be demanding that medical schools train more students. We should also look into training foreign doctors to our medical standards and then providing them visas to move here.
digghasnoethicsMay 6, 2011Buried
Because he was bending over backwards to try to get the repubs onboard. He should have ditched them and gone for a simple single payer government scheme and killed off most of the insurance industry at the same time.
Too much seeking for political consensus with paid for idiots.
gvoakesMay 5, 2011Buried
DRINKO DE MAYO!
booglefloopMay 6, 2011Buried
At least they provide their sources. Where are yours? I am open minded and would consider both sides if you could present something different
o76923May 6, 2011Buried
Clearly you haven't been reading your Ayn Rand. There is a perfectly good reason that Trump gets better care than you: he is rich and therefore more successful and therefore he matters more.
/how do people believe that bitch is anything other than a sociopath?
xophermvMay 6, 2011Buried
The same is true for anyone earning a PhD. However, PhDs in English, History, Math, Biology, or Physics aren't going to graduate into cushy jobs making the same buckets of money as a medical doctor.
Granted, some of these people aren't going to be putting in the same hours as you.
But, if your point is that somehow the cost of your education entitles you to a disproportionately higher salary compared to the average person, then I have to ask why these other groups of PhDs don't also earn a disproportionately higher salary. Among the highly educated, medical doctors are just another in an entire list of doctors.
The fact is that doctors earn what they earn based on simple supply and demand. The supply of doctors is maintained artificially low through manipulation by the American Medical Association of medical school enrollments. We could train a lot more doctors. But we choose not to. Further, they push for limits of foreign doctors to train to the US standards and move to the US.
backwardscompatMay 5, 2011Buried
Stop drinking? No. Not even for a second. I'M DRINKING RIGHT NOW!
jsstewartMay 6, 2011Buried
Never let facts get in the way of your stupid opinions.
nostradumassMay 6, 2011Buried
Recent GDP figures from IMF:
USA GDP ~ $14 trillion
china GDP - ~ $4.5 Trillion
per capita GDP:
USA ~ $43,000
China ~$4300
US total debt ~ $14 Trillion
% owned by US government : ~ 62%
% owned by China :~ 7%
http://seekingalpha.com/article/246958-guess-who-owns-the-most-u-s-debt-not-china
ncmusicMay 6, 2011Buried
This is definitely a valid point. It also depends on what kind of Dr you are too. Gen pract vs surgeon or other kind of specialist. I wonder what the cost of healthcare education is in these other countries.
booglefloopMay 6, 2011Buried
So.. that's it? You make assertions that the infographic is wrong and your only defense is that your time is not free? Sounds to me that you can't refute it.
kaylayray783May 5, 2011Buried
One word: Absurd!
lnussrallahMay 6, 2011Buried
U.S. needs a single payer health system. Not sure why some are opposed to it. If I, a dog groomer, and Donald Trump each get diagnosed with cancer, guess who gets the best treatment and who will probably die within a year? Why is Donald Trump's life more valuable than mine? How can a healthier country overall be detrimental to our goals in the world?
SPATIALGUYMay 6, 2011Buried
Ahhym... I'm not anti corporate!! I'm ethical. Profiting off sickness and misery is the worst of all businesses practices. We'll get back to that in a minute.
Lets focus on a few points.
1. If you can afford stock options... you probably don't have a problem seeing a doctor or specialist when you need one.
2. Poor people don't buy stocks... so publicity traded or not the poor are excluded from that equation.
3 Large insurance companies, trade organization and industry associations spend millions of dollars to directly influence and lobby the government so they can operative with relative impunity. These organizations maintain their influence because of their close ties with the government and will pay big money to continue to do so.
The common man doesn't have that type of leverage and never will.
4. Fewer and fewer people can afford healthcare. The healthcare offered today compared to what it was 20 years ago is like the airline service. 20 years ago, airlines had bigger seats, bigger bathrooms less seats per plane little if any weight limit on luggage or carry-ons , included loads of amenities like peanuts, drinks, pillows as part of the service. Today for the relative price... you get no amenities and even pay the use of a pillow and are charged for checked and carryon baggage.
Healthcare today is you pay more and get less a lot less. s**t Corporations don't offer the same benefit packages as they did in the 70's-80's and 90's Hell, prior to the 70's most people could actually afford to pay for medical expenses out of pocket.
Compare that to our present system, where only the rich can manage to buy healthcare out of pocket.
My focus has been on the American system of things... Everything healthcare in the US costs more, a lot more, and generally you get a lot less because it's all about the bottom line... It's all about profit.
Compared to other countries where their systems are more, socialized and thus less about profit and the bottom line.
That's ok by me, profit has no place in healthcare. Capitalization on the illness of another sole is so morally and ethically wrong. Profiting on healthcare sterilizes it of humanity, compassion and transforms it into a has or has not system. Some like it this way... these are the people who say our system is just fine and dandy, the best system in the world.
I say its f**ked up.
charlesdkraussMay 6, 2011Buried
lol at people making up excuses why America is still somehow better when the facts are staring them in the face.